Tuesday, October 14, 2008

4th hour Fahrenheit 451 Liveblog Discussion pgs. 23-40

143 comments:

kelseyw said...

I agree with Hunter, his fireman ago is cracking kind of, and maybe the hound can sense that....

mmoritz said...

Kind of like how a dog can sense when something is wrong?

bella said...

I think that the Hound resembles the humans in a way. The Hound is metal and cold, just like Guy’s bed. Ever since Guy has talked to Clairesse, he has thought about everything in a different way. He tells the Captain that he should put good into the Hound, not just bad.

katelynm said...

text to text: The government has control like in the book The Giver where everything is "perfect." The government tries to control everything.

kelseyw said...

Clarisse is one of the only ones that is thinking for herself, everyone else needs the tv screens and stuff to make their life complete, but she goes out and tastes the rains, and hikes. She is crazy in a sense, not to us but to the society that she is in.

MariahF said...

i think that Guy's new perspective is becoming apparent and the people around him are starting to notice, the hound might be sensing this and that is why the hound is acting strangely towards him.

SophiaA said...

I think the hound attacking montag shows that montag is not happy and there is something wrong with him. It helps Montag realize that he is in fact not happy and Clarisse left him to ponder.

SophiaA said...

I think the hound attacking montag shows that montag is not happy and there is something wrong with him. It helps Montag realize that he is in fact not happy and Clarisse left him to ponder.

Bronson said...

I find it interesting that Bradbury put emphasis on this seemingly unimportant hound. There is a well known figure or figures known as the "hound(s) of hell" and this book has a lot to do w/ fire and the like and it is a seemingly bad place where people are repressed. This hound seems to be a represnative of this "hell on Earth" just as the figuritve hounds of hell.

Mollyo said...

I agree with Nicole in the fact that Clarisse is the only one with perspective on the world. No one else notices anything. For example, when Clarisse was tasting the rain, Montag just looked at her like she was a crazy person because he has never even thought of trying that before. Clarisse is the only person that uses what the world has to offer while everyone else was caught up on technology.

bella said...

A real live dog can sense when something is wrong. The Hound cannot sense anything because it is made of metal and evil. It cannot sense anything but what it is told to sense like bad. It does not have any goodness so it cannot be sympethitic.

emmaw said...

I believe that the hound may be acknowledging the change in Montag and how his view is starting to shift. And the hound is making a physical connection between how people are noticing the change in Montag. I agree with what connor says about the hound detecting a change in Montag and the mechanical hound is actually physically showing its noticing, where as people just think it.

ThomasL said...

I think that the dog is symbolizing something that Montag has done wrong and the hound is sort of haunting Montag... and maybe making him feel guilty.

SophiaA said...

I think that Hunter could be somewhat right about Clarisse. She may actually be a real character in the book but the author is trying to make you think that she is Montag's conscience.

ruthp said...

The hound I think might possibly be the way that Montag dies,because Montag says that someday it might go after a human. I think that it is interesting on page 26 The Captain says that the Hound can’t dislike or like. I think that the author is trying to say that machine might be able to do the same things that humans can, but they can never think and feel like we can.

jordanp said...

I think the hound is suposed to just be another way how the world has changed from digs which are suposed to be warm and comfortable but the hound is cold made of metal and a w
eapon.

kelseyw said...

How are the firemen in the book chosen? he mentioned how the looks of each of them are similar, are they chosen for hair color, skin color, ect.?

AHOLMES! said...

I think that the Hound represents his thoughts and kind of what he is thinking in his mind. He's seems to be thinking lately that he might really not be fit to be a fireman because of what Clarisse said when she said that he didnt seem like he would be a fireman because he was so nice. This kind of makes him think that he should be somehthing different, like not a fireman, and this kind of is exspressed through the Hound because the hound doesnt like him, but it likes all of the other firemen who are happy with their jobs, so i think the hound's anger toward Montag shows that he really isnt meant to be a fireman.

SophiaA said...

Montag does not really like his wife. He wishes that she was a different after she tries to commit suicide by overdosing on sleeping pills. It seems as though their marriages could be arranged and not chosen since their freedoms and rights seem to be limited.

CourtneyA said...

The hound is the new watch dog in the age of Fahrenheit 451. Instead of the dog helping firemen and riding in the trucks with them, this animal destroys animals. In the book it said that cats and different kinds of animals were chased and killed by the hound. It makes me wonder what happened to the real dogs. Do the hounds chase and attack the real dogs?
A connection to the Giver, like someone was mentioning in the circle, was the hound killing the animals by injecting a needle and how people were realesed. In the Giver if someone was realesed they were actaully killed with a needle, too. It is a way yo get rid of the "bad" or "weak" People/animals

trey said...

Maybe the hound is controlled by the government and they are watching Montag because they sense he is going to cause trouble.

ThomasL said...

I agree with Sophia about Clarisse being or at least symbloizing Montag's conscience. Montag looks forward to talking to Clarisse each day because she actually puts thought into the world around her.

Jacob WR said...

Here's a text-to-world connection- these books that show worlds where the government has taken complete control and created dystopias, such as Farenheit and The Giver, show an intense fear on part of the western civilization of large government, such as that demonstrated by socialism in general and by the Soviet Union. As this book was written in the 1950s, a time when fear of Socialism and the Soviet Union was prevalent, I think that this is very pertinent to the setting of the book, and the events within, as well as books like 1984, Farenheit, and stories like Harrison Bergeron and The Pedestrian.

Mollyo said...

I agree that Montags relationship with his wife is much like Macbeth's relationship with Lady Macbeth because neither is based off of true love. Montag and his wife are together but she only cares about technology (wanting the fourth was eventhough Montag cant afford it)and he doesnt really love her at all. Lady Macbeth basically controlled Macbeth.

bella said...

I agree with Nicole, because the firefighters are like the government and do what the law enforces. If they dont do it, they will be put in jail. That is just like Macbeth. Lady Macbeth is like the government and controls everybody. Macbeth is like the Guy because he must do what he is told to do even if he thinks that it is wrong he must do it and terminate the books.

Bronson said...

I think Guy's marriage is just another way of keeping him under control and normal. Their realtionship has no love, I mean they are married and they have seperate beds, that is just worng. Mildred is reminescent of the wife in Harrison Burgeron, but not as extreme. Mildred is fairly stupid and all she cares about is her tv. THeir marriage is, like Nicole seemed to say, just a status symbol nothing else.

katelynm said...

I agree with Tomas that Lady Macbeth is like Guy's wife but they also differ because they are in different situations. Also, Lady Macbeth has more involvment in everything and Guy's wife doesn't really.

kelseyw said...

How did Mildred and Guy get married? are they married, or in their society are you just paired with someone? an arranged marriage?

AHOLMES! said...

I think that his relationship with his wife Mildred, it sort of reminds me of a set up marrige gone bad. THe way they treat each other is like that of a couple that have been forced to marry, but don't love each other. The two don't love each other and Montag realizeas this when Clarisse tests his love life with the dandolion.

ruthp said...

About what Sophia said, do we know that she tried to commit suicide or did she do it for some other reason?

ThomasL said...

I agree with Molly about the husband/wife relationship between Montag and Mildrid and Macbeth and Lady Macbeth. Both married couples don't exactly love eachother it's almost like they have to be married to eachother.

trey said...

I think that the government might choose peoples jobs and wives and that is why Montag doesnt love his wife and the firemen are all the same in appearance and acting.

bella said...

Does Mildred resemble Lady Macbeth in any way?

kelseyw said...

Was Guy feeling the uncertainty about his job before Clarisse or did she really open his eyes to how miserable he really is?

Mollyo said...

I agree that Clarisse is a symbol of Montag's concience. Montag wants to be happy, and after he met her he realized that he wasnt happy. Clarisse is the sybol of reality. She is opening Montags eyes to new ideas that he had never thought about before he met her.

emmaw said...

Montag's relationship with Mildrid is very different from relationships now, it seems to be more of an obligation to marry than how now we desire to marry for love. As Clarisse points out with the dandelion, Montag is not in love with his wife. There marriage has none of the usual signs of being in love, there is no communication between the two, a physicall distance with the separate beds, and neither of them have shown any intamicy towards the other.

CourtneyA said...

I think that Montag’s wife really depend’s on him as a caregiver or a helper rather than a husband. I don’t think he was really happy about it, but he never really gave it any thought until Clarisse. Once he met her he startede to stop and think about things.

MariahF said...

i think that the world in the book doesn't pay enough attention to each other, and what "wall" Montag has is weak because no one else every really looks at people, but when Clarisse meats him she really pays attention to him and she sees him. because she can see him so well, he starts to fear what other people can see.

SophiaA said...

Maybe she did not try to commit suicide but don't you think that maybe she is sescretly not happy with the way the government runs and how limited their rights are that she is willing to take her own life?

ruthp said...

Do you guys think that possibly in the futuristic world that Montag lives in, they have arranged marriages? Why else would he hate his wife so much?

kelseyw said...

Are the roles of police officers switched around? (like firefighters start fires, not put them out?) is it like the pedestrian, when the police aren't needed at all?

katelynm said...

As Kelsey said: are they really married or is it an arranged marriage? I think that because they obviously don't really love each other, they probably did have an arranged marriage. What else does this government do that affect the everyday person's life in 451.

AHOLMES! said...

Adding on to what Thomas was saying, when it says "and then she was gone." it completely just leaves you hanging and its totally like a smack in the face to you cause its such a powerful statement. Clarisse is in his life for a few weeks, and changes his life completely and the perspective he has about living life, and then all of a sudden she's just gone.

jordanp said...

I wonder about how firemen are chosen like Kelsey. Do they want to be firemen because Guy says he remembers fire as something conforting so maybe he wanted to be a firemen.
I also don't think Mildred adn Guy really know each other his wife hasn't even noticed how Guy has changed lately adn he didn't think anything of her when she ODed until he found the pill.

bella said...

When the kids kill each other it is like when the immagrants first came to Ellis Island. Many newcomers started to form gangs and kill people for money. Maybe this future is history.

Mollyo said...

Is there such thing as murder in their society? How could reading books be against the law but shooting and beating up other people is legal?

ThomasL said...

I believe that Montag loved his job and was proud of himself and he never took any time to think about what he really does as a fireman. Clarisse opened his eyes and his mind to really think about what he does as a fireman.

kelseyw said...

It sounds like crime is way up in the book. If they are being so controlled that they can't really think for themselves, how can crime be so common? are they programmed to be dangerous?

Bronson said...

As an answer to Ruth's question there are not arranged marriages. THis is proven when Guy asks Mildred where and when they met Mildred says it was 10 years ago but she doesn't remeber where or how. This shows not only that marriages aren't arranged but it also shows that it doesn't matter anymore, very much unlike now.

MariahF said...

i think that Montag just doesn't like his wife because he needs more interaction with her, but all she wants to do is live in her virtual TV world. they probably liked each other at the beginning, they have just grown apart.

emmaw said...

I also have the same question as Ruth, on whether it was arranged or just faded away love, or obligation between Guy and Mildrid. What are the qualifications for marriage, is it a govermement process?

Jacob WR said...

I think that in this society, everyone is stuck thinking that they are "happy", like Guy before he met Clarisse, because they have never known anything besides their fast-paced, censored society. Clarisse in this book serves as a catalyst, showing Guy a different perspective, one which he would have adopted were he able before. He seems fearful, though, as one would assume, because he has never known anything but this strange society in which he has lived for his entire life. Shifting to an open perspective such as Clarisse's, which considers options "forbidden", per se, by the government of the time, is tough for him, as he has lived all his life in fear of these options.

jordanp said...

Why would they want to arrange marriages though? How would that benifit the government

SophiaA said...

Do you think that all the firemen are aware that in the past their job was to put out fires not start them? maybe the firemen are aware firemen in the past put out fires but they just might be restricted from releasing that information to the public..

bella said...

When Montag was making the fire, did he take one of the womans books and put it under his arm? It says "Now it plunged the book back under hisarm, pressed it tight to sweating rmpit, rushed out empty, with a magicians flourish!"

Bronson said...

As a response to Kelsey's comment on crime, i agree but disagree at the same time. I think killing and what is considered crime now is up but i think it is no longer considered crime. They were talking about shooting and the like in FUN parks which shows it isx now more sport than crime.

kelseyw said...

Will Montag essentially drive himself crazy like Lady Macbeth did? His guilt over his career of destroying books, and Lady Macbeth's over killing Duncan...

ThomasL said...

I agree with Mariah, Montag wants to grow closer to his wife... but she is so busy with all these futuristic gadgets. Mildrid doesn't seem very smart either because she didn't even know she coinsumed 30 sleeping pills at once.

katelynm said...

Why are the kids shooting each other? I think it is because they are all crazy like Clairese(however you spell her name) Also, the kids might be killing each other because they don't really care about people's lives. When all the firemen where burning down the house of the lady that died, they all just thought about getting out of the house before it explodes and they don't really care if the lady dies. Montag tried to save her but she din't want to be saved.

AHOLMES! said...

As Kelsey and Ruth asked, they were asking if you think that in 451 there were arranged marriges, but i don't think there were actually. When Montag was really caught up in his pride of being as fireman, he really thought that his life was amazing and completely perfect. Before Clarisse came along and asked him if he was happy, he never stopped to think about anything, so i dont think he ever stopped to think about if he really TRULY loved his wife. Since these thoughts nevere came up, i think he thought that he loved her, since he also thought that he was happy and that he liked his job, even though none of those turned out to be true.

Jacob WR said...

What emma said concerning government-made arranged marriages is an interesting idea to me. I think that it is very likely that the government would take control of the peoples' marriage, if they have already taken control of what the people can see, do, read, learn, and so many other things as they have in Farenheit.

trey said...

maybe the kids get confused with their TV lives and their actual lives and that is why they kill eachother.Since the TV is so realistic they might think their whole life is a TV show.

Bronson said...

Yes, Montag did take a book. Later it describes his feelings about this action, and that moment is very interesting.

CourtneyA said...

I think kids are killing themselves, because that is one of the last big “thrills” to them. Nowdays a thrill could be driving really fast or going on a rollar coaster. The feeling you get while doing that is something new and unique from every day activites. In Montag’s age, they drive at an incredibly fast speed and they are used to that thrill. It became a part of them. Killing other people might be the only “thrill” they have anymore.
I don’t think that other kids like Clarisse, because she doesn’t go fast, and so does things out of the ordinary. Kids always want to do something new and play with new incredible technology. They don’t stop to taste the rain. Normal, typical kids are almost the complete opposite of her.

bella said...

To answer jordans question, I didnt know that they had the arranged marriages!

kelseyw said...

It sounds like Clarisse stayed independent and thoughtful because her uncle and parents are, but how did they manage to stay that way when society was changing so drastically?

ruthp said...

To answer elly’s question, he did take the book, because it says that he felt the hidden book.

ThomasL said...

As a response to Sophia's comment, I think that firemen don't know that their job used to be to put out fires rather than starting fires. Montag seems surprised when Clarisse tells him that is what firemen used to do.

ruthp said...

About what Nicole said, do think that they program the people so that they all look the same?

Jacob WR said...

Thomas brought up the fact that Mildred isn't exactly the brightest bulb in the shed, because she didn't even know she consumed 30 sleeping pills at once.
This, I think, is similar to Harrison Bergeron- the government, instead of placing mechanisms in peoples' ears or bags of lead balls on peoples' shoulders, takes control of society by turning them into sedentary blobs, as it were, sitting and watching their television sets instead of questioning the government's activities. The government questions the sanity of all who do otherwise, like The Pedestrian and Clarisse, in order to scare people into submission and to convince them that it is a good idea, and perfectly normal, to stay home and simply watch television instead of doing anything else.

Mollyo said...

On page 34 it shows Montag starting to think like Clarisse in having an open mind. All the firmen were sitting down playing cards and he starts to ask, "In the old days, before houses were completely fireproof...Didn't firemen prevent fires rather than stoke them up and get them going?" This shows that he is actually wondering what being a firefighter is all about and if its the right thing to do. Montag has grown since the begining of the book because before he met Clairsse, he was very proud to be a fire man and flaunted the 451 on the uniform, but now he is thinking for the people and walking in their shoes. I think Montags is starting to find his true identity behind the jacket and helmet.

jordanp said...

It's intresting that he met Mildred the same year he became a firemen I wonder how there related.
Also in response to Bronson you still have a first meeting with someone even if it's an arranged marriage and if there wasn't that much love to begin with why would they remember it

kelseyw said...

Someone or something is in the air vent/grate in Montag's house, could it be the government, or the power over the community, watching him? Did they see that he has the ability to think for himself and don't want him to corrupt anyone else?

ThomasL said...

It really seems like Clarisse isn't a human. She always says that she is "one of them" almost like she is an alien or something.

emmaw said...

In response to Evan's question, i do think that Clarisse is provoking Guy's mind and trying to open up his eyes to the world how it really is. I know that when you have a greater understanding of what the world is truely like its rare to not share it with anyone. And Clarisse doesnt have a large audience to share her thoughts with so when she finds that Montage even wants to talk a little shes going to try and continue to converse with him.

katelynm said...

Back to what Evan said: I think Clairese is trying to get Montag to see who he really is because that is the main point of talking to him I think. She is making him analyze what his life is all about. She seems more mature in this way because she is provocing his thought and she seems more inteligent when she is talking to him.

ruthp said...

Maybe the reason why Clarisse is so outspoken and her family is because they are in an underground organization that sells books and teaches them about old ideas. I don't know it's just a guess.

AHOLMES! said...

MY impression of the book right now, this is kind of a follow up to the question Why are the kids killing each other? and it seems like everyone in the book really doesnt value life except for Clarisse, and eventually Montag. Im thinking that the kids are killing each other bbecause of their social status and they dont value life, and neither did Montag, until the fire with the old lady after he talked to Clarisse and how she said "life is short, and most people dont realize it..." and thats when he realizes it for the first time.

Bronson said...

I agree w/ Thomas L. The firemen do not know that their job was ever to put out fires. History has been greatly skewed by whoever is in control. A fireman read the history of firemen and it said that the fireman profession was statred by the british in 1790 in order to burn books in the colonies and that the first fireman was Ben Franklin, who in actuallity loved books

Mollyo said...

Does Montag secretly read books himself?

SophiaA said...

Thomas, although Montag acted surprised when Clarisse told him firemen used to put out fires do you think that the government will not allow firement to release that information to the public because they are afraid of how the public will react to it?

ThomasL said...

As a response to Kelsey's question, I think that she is right about the government or authority watching over him watching his every move. Maybe the government wants him to think like a fireman not think for himself.

CourtneyA said...

To answer Ruth's question I do not think that they program people to look the same and think the same. Clarisse is a perfect example of a girl that acts differently and thinks differently. When she first meets Montag, one of the first things she said was I am not afraid of you. That gives you the impression that others are afraid though.

ruthp said...

Do you guys think that people have been told to spy on their spouses? If so, is Mildred spying on Montag? Will she fing out about the book he took from the lady's house?

Jacob WR said...

I think Ruth's comment was again very interesting. I don't think it is incredibly likely, but it would certainly be intriguing should Clarisse's family be involved with such things.
I think it would be relevant, though, even though it might not be likely. Certainly, if there were anyone to engage in such activities in this society, it would be Clarisse's family, who already engage in "illegal" activities, and obviously have a perspective similar to one who lived before the advent of this tyrannical government.

MariahF said...

i think that the socity is controled but removeing the ponintial of people's thoughts, the don't take them away they just distract you with TV and technology. Everyone could think, they just have no reason too, they can live a scripted "life" by playing the missing parts on TV. if you take away reality, then you take away the reasons to think.

AHOLMES! said...

to what nicole said, he's taking the book, haha i just realized this but he's CHALLENGING THE SYSTEM! lol...by taking the book, he is going against what everyone is forced to do, and especially being a fireman, he is completely going against all order and laws against that situation. (Sorry, i was happy for figuring that out! haha :])

katelynm said...

When Montag is asking questions about firemen and how they originated, it is just like challenging the system in The Lord of the Flies. Also, Clairese challenges the system when she is provoking Montag to think this way.

bella said...

When the firemen used to stop fires not start them, Guy seems surprised. He asks the Captain about the history of the firemen and Stoneman pulls out history books that tell the burning of the books. The books say "Established, 1790, to burn English-influenced books in the Colonies. First fireman: Benmjamin Franklin. RULE: 1. Answer the alarm swiftly.
2.Start the fire swiftly.
3.Burn everything.
4.Report back to the firehouse immediatly.
5.Stand alert for other alarms
All these rules are based on the real rules of today, just instead of start fire, stop fire.

ThomasL said...

Sophia, I think that you are right about people getting in trouble for telling the truth about historic firemen. This fact could change the way firemen think for example Montag is starting to think for himself.

Bronson said...

I'm actually not sure that what is in the vent is books. Montag brings home a book from the old women's house yet does not store it there even though his wife was sleeping and he would not get caught. However, I agree with hunter on the point there is a guilt bringing object within it.

emmaw said...

Courtney mentioned kids killing them selves for one of the last thrills they have, and i agree with that. But i also believe that Clarisse found her own way of getting a thrill. Part of that thrill that we get now is doing something that is against the rules, or not your average thing. And Clarisse does that by walking to walk and doing things that are out of the normal for that time. She took the opposite road that the kids killing them selves, she spends time thinking and walking and questioning how her world is.

kelseyw said...

In response to what Trey said about how kids could be getting more violent because they are confusing their tv lives and real lives. People are replacing their lives with these tv rooms, like Mildred was doing. When these kids are sent out into the world, they don't really know how to interact with people (real people). In the tv rooms you can't do anything but outside you can....

SophiaA said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
CourtneyA said...

Like someone in the middle was saying I think that Clarisse will somehow try into Montag and burning books. I predict that he will either find out that she has books and will be put in the postion to either tattle or make sure no one finds out. The other thing I can see happening is that when the firemen go to a house to burn books and take away people it will be her house and he will have to be part of burning everything, ignoring the call, or saving her somehow.

Mollyo said...

Ruth, it is possible that peoples spouses are syping on them because it says that neither one really truley loves eachother and Montag enjoys his time the Clarisse but not his wife...

jordanp said...

Besides Clarise has anyonelse in the book really asked questions?
I agree that the kids probably don't think very much of life, like GUy before he never really thought of the victims of what he did and a pparantly know one else does and Beatty is perfectly alright with leaving the women to die because they don't care about life.

Bronson said...

I find it interesting the books that the firemen are buring may conatin information about the old job as a fireman. I highly this is the only reason to burn books because if it was there would be no need for firemen, but i am sure it is a good reason now they already started to burn books.

AHOLMES! said...

Do you guys think that Mildred will report him for having a book? think about their relationship and what's important to Mildred.

katelynm said...

I agree with what Mariah said that they rely on TV mostly and technology and without that they would have no reason to do anything. But, they probably don't know anything other than that: whay happens on TV and what happens in the screen of the "play." It's really pathetic when you think about it.

mmoritz said...

If books are so bad, why are people taught how to read? Why not make everyone ignorant? Do you think only fiction is burned, or would other books be "bad"?

bella said...

To answer Riths question, I dont think that Mildred is spying on Guy. Who knows, she might even have a book or two or three...

SophiaA said...

In response to Ruth's question: It would be very likely for the people to spy on their spouse's especially spouses of firmen because the government would probably not want any firemen to have any books. This would release information to the public that the government would not want released. If people finally realized what are in books, the government could not control it and the whole sciety would be out of control of the government.

ruthp said...

Do you think that people really do know about the old firemen and aren't saying for fear of getting in trouble? Do you think that possibly Montag and Clarise aren't the only ones that think differently?

MariahF said...

i completely agree with Emma, Clarisse's thrill is challenging the system, and thinking.

Jacob WR said...

In response to the current discussion in the Fishbowl, I don't think that Mildred is spying on Montag at all. She's too distracted, 24/7. And even if she wasn't, would she be intelligent enough to form a thought process that might lead her to suspect Montag, her noble fireman husband, protecting her from evil, (yes that was sarcastic) would be in fact hiding books in her house.

kelseyw said...

Do Clarisse's parents love each other? They are different in most other ways so its possible...
Montag and Mildred don't love each all that much....

kelseyw said...

If books are burned, why do the firemen have books? are only certain books to be burned? Are only thought provoking books to be burned?

katelynm said...

Why are all the other books banned and not the firemen books banned, there are so many arguments that could go along with it.

Bronson said...

As i somewhat stated before any nofiction books could reveal true histories rather than the govt.'s history, which would ruin the utopia.

SophiaA said...

How could a society function without some sort of books? Wouldn't they need rule books, school books, etc. Are certain documents also burned like The Declaration of Independence?

mmoritz said...

In reaction to what they are discussing in the inner circle, do you think police officers that bust up meth/crack houses have an need to actually do the drugs in order to knnow why they are bad?????????

Jacob WR said...

In response to Mrs. Moritz's comment-

I don't think that ignorance would be the answer in a society like this. Books are an efficient medium for the transportation of information, and the government wishes not to eliminate it, but only to control it, because if you control the books, you control also, to an extent, the minds of the people.

ruthp said...

I think that Clarise's parents do love eachother, how else would she know what it is to truly be happy and be loved.

trey said...

I think historic books are the only ones that are burned because the government doesnt want people knowing the past and starting a rebellion.

ThomasL said...

I think non fiction is banned also becuase some are trying to hide the past from readers. Authorities don't want people to read about people of the past thinking for themselves when the people of the future are taught to not think for themselves.

bella said...

I think that anybody know about the old firemen except for the firemen and Clairisse. All the bad is good and all the good is bad in F451

MariahF said...

if reading was banned, the people burning books would start to have questions about why these pages of weird symbols were so bad. i guess reading would take away a bit of temptation because you can still read, but you can only read what the government tells to to.

ruthp said...

About the inner circle, who chooses which books are banned?

katelynm said...

What Kelsey said: do they only burn books that are thought provoking, would they "burn" or get rid of Clairese.

AHOLMES! said...

Following along with what Tomas m. said, i disagree because if Beatty had a past with all his books being burned by firemen, i dont underrstand why he would ever want to be one, because by burning other peopoles books that woulod just remind him how horrible he felt when it happened to him, so i don't agree on him havbing a past aspect, but when Thomas said he was kind of the evil character in the book, i completely agree.

mmoritz said...

Hey Evan--
Let's talk about the woman at the end who strikes the match. Is she a martyr? What about her quote to Master Ridley. Who is that? Why is that important?

jordanp said...

I agree with Kelsey and Trey that the kids are getting confused, on tv they see people killed and it and they interact with the tv more than they talk to real people so when they're out in the real world they think that killing might be fun because it's fun on tv sometimes the heroes are the one who kill alot of people and they want to try that .

Bronson said...

I find Mrs. Moritz' question quite interesting. I do feel those who have done drugs and have gone completley straight make the best pepole to deal with durgs. They know what people try to do on drugs, and they know how to help them because they went through it themselves.

emmaw said...

What would happen if a fireman were to go corrupt and want to protect the books and read them instead of burn them? The firemen aren't watched to see if they take books, like Guy did. Firemen have the best access to books, why is there no apparent concern for them wanting books?

Jacob WR said...

In response to Sophia-
I think that the Declaration might have been burned, yes, because it goes against this government's policies and wishes, and would instill in the people a knowledge of freedom, independence, and a duty to gain those rights which Thomas Jefferson deemed inalienable. Among those rights is the right to knowledge, and that is one thing that this government wishes to control.

kelseyw said...

Are they aware that firefighters used to fight fires? like Clarisse said? are they in denial or just ignorant?

SophiaA said...

If reading books is banned in the society do you think that writing stories is also banned??

ThomasL said...

I think the woman is a martyr do to the fact that books were apparently the most important thing to her so she is dying for what she believes in. Even though the fact that she struck the match could bring up the argument that she commit suiside.

bella said...

No to Mrs. Moritz question, because if the police tried the drugs, they could like it and then let the people who were doing bad off the hook.

CourtneyA said...

In responce to Mrs. Moritz question I thinnk people are tought how to read, because they need to know how to read the rules. Montag's captain had him read the rules and very short history of firemen. Montag's wife, Mildred, had to read her script for her show, too. I think these books are banned, because it could give people ideas that their society is not as free or as good as there was before them. The people seem to only know what the society rulers or leaders wan them to know. Some of the authors of the books that were mentioned have already been written. They must have been before Montag's age.

ThomasL said...

Like Evan said, the woman is tired of people controlling her and she wants to "challenge the system" by killing herself for that reason.

AHOLMES! said...

What Katelyn said: the books and Clarisse are alike and very similar, the challenge the system by thinking and teaching against what society thinks people should be like. So if Clarisse was a book, yeah, they would burn her.

ruthp said...

I think that the lady at the end is a martyr, because she would rather die than go to an asylum and be brain washed.

katelynm said...

response to Ruth's question: the kind of people that burn the books would be people that are like Montag used to be, now he has changed a little bit and everyone else is like Montag used to be.

Mollyo said...

In response to Hunter, i think that the firemen are feeling guilt because they finally realize what they are doing and what they live for really hurts people. If they didnt burn the lady's books then she may not have taken her own life. Maybe with this and what Montag was saying earlier about what firemen were like a long time ago, maybe this wil get the firemen thinking about if this really is the right thing to do.

ThomasL said...

I agree with KC about the woman starting a rebellion, maybe others will agree with her about people controlling her and others will stand up against it.

ruthp said...

I agree with Thomas M., I think the Lady noticed Montag take the book and is trying to start a rebellion, with Montag as the leader.

katelynm said...

Did Montag's wife see him hide what ever is in the grille in the ceiling? Maybe that is why he is holding on to her presence.

Jacob WR said...

In response to what's happening in the discussion, I think that the people, such as those who have been burned or convicted by the government, have indeed recognized that the government's most effective weapon is their monopoly on knowledge, and if they can evade this, and give true knowledge to the people, they can break free from the government.

bella said...

Mabye the woman with the books, maybe was an author and wanted to die along with her books. She maybe knew what Montag felt and knew that he would do something. Its kinda like a grandmother. Grammas are always looking out for people they like and they feel for people. They know what they feel just like the witches in Macbeth. She knew that she would start something when she saw Montag.

MariahF said...

i think that her pride wouldn't let her just walk away from her books. like KC said in the inner-circle. she started it and she couldn't just let the government end it. if someone was going to take away her books, they might as well take her too.

emmaw said...

In response to Mrs Moritz, yes i have heard of cops going under cover in drug buts and having to do some drugs to keep their cover. Unfortunately some do end up going under and become addicts. But after experiencing something there is a better chance you can relate to some one going through the same thing. There is a show now that follows this idea called The Cleaner where an ex-drug addict helps clean up current addicts and confront them.