Wednesday, October 22, 2008

4th hour Fahrenheit 451 Liveblog Discussion pgs 70-91

48 comments:

mmoritz said...

Good Morning Everybody--I hope you are having a good day.
Hunter- please do your best to keep me up with the conversation. I may chime in with questions, but you do not have to respond--they are really for the inner circle.

PaulF said...

actually paul is on the computer

mmoritz said...

Oh right, sorry--Hunter is taking notes for me. O.K. Paul--I'm ready when you are.

PaulF said...

Tomas lynch opens with a question about Fader saying he doesn't talk mindlessly and only talks when it is a meaningful conversation... what do people think?

PaulF said...

The general consensus is that Fader is one of the non-conformists (or oddballs as nicole said) who asks "why" and is one of the few inteligent beings remaining. They also think montag is becoming like Fader in that he questions everything

mmoritz said...

Fader--the guy from the parkbench?

PaulF said...

Sophia wonders what the quote "the world's starving but we are well fed" means and if it has any deeper meaning...

PaulF said...

yes, Fader is the guy Montag talked to on the park bench

mmoritz said...

So he is somewhat of a mentor to Montag? Or could become one?

mmoritz said...

Good Question Sophia.

PaulF said...

Some people think that it is alluding to the fact that people are "stuffed" with knowledge but the knowledge has no real substance. Connor thinks that it means what it says- we are the only country who is not poor and starving. Thomas says that people may believe they are well fed with the superfacial knowledge they are fed by the government and doesn't know what they are missing becasue they have never "had a taste" of real knowledge

PaulF said...

In regard to your question Thomas M. thinks that he could become Montag's mentor like Clarisse but at this point Fader doesn't trust Montag completely.

mmoritz said...

Do you think this could be happening in today's society? Are you being fed superficial knowledge sometimes?

PaulF said...

Ohther people are saying that Fader is a coward and isn't brave enough to teach Montag lessons about reading and about uncensored/raw life.

mmoritz said...

Of course...there is no reason why Fader should trust Montag-remember, he's a FIREMAN.

PaulF said...

Bronson asks about the quote of the superhero who was strong on the ground but when he was lifted into the air he was powerless. The general response to this was that it was a metaphor relating to knowledge and by cutting people off from it they are powerless.

mmoritz said...

Good.

PaulF said...

Jacob thinks that the press feeds us false knowledge and hypes up stories by lieing becasue they know they won't be called on it.

PaulF said...

Other people relate it to China and how they block the internet and school is very censored.

PaulF said...

Now there is more relating to how journalists fudge the statistics and take things our of context in order to achiever there ends... Jacob had a good quote "Statistics don't lie, but liers use statistics"

PaulF said...

New Topic: Emma asks what we think about the war going on in this book and how other countries view the US? Maybee like the way we view china today???

mmoritz said...

What about all of the political adds? Not sure I want to go here with this class, but how can an voter decide what is true or not?

PaulF said...

Most people are saying that other countries dispiese us for repressing freedom of speech and how often we will burn books.

mmoritz said...

Confused about the comparison to China when it comes to the war. Can you clarify.

mmoritz said...

Repressing freedom of speech?

PaulF said...

Clarification: Well china is always in the news for repressing human rights and it seems like America does this in 451. People didn't discuss the war very much just compared us to China.

mmoritz said...

China now-the US in the book...right?

PaulF said...

What about all of the political adds? Not sure I want to go here with this class, but how can an voter decide what is true or not?

People are saying that voters should base their opinions on nonpartism groups because most news channels and political ads don't tell the whole truth. It was also brought up that debates are a good way to glean information.

PaulF said...

China now-the US in the book...right? that is correct

PaulF said...

Sophia asks if Montag is becoming like Clarisse? (Montag asks Clarisse if her family loves her and he is starting to question things instead of taking everything for granted.)

mmoritz said...

What about people whe see the adds and believe them? Something like 19percent of Americans will change their views after seeing a negative campaign add. What do you think of that?

PaulF said...

Bronson asks how Montag will find happiness?

mmoritz said...

Oh, he'll find happiness. :)

PaulF said...

there isn't much response to this question and the teacher asks why when Montag asks if her "family" loves her Mildred responds 'why would you ask a silly thing like that" People agree that most people are numb to deep thoughts and can only think on the surface.

mmoritz said...

That and Mildred is completely "plugged in", she only has a RELATIONSHIP with her FAMILY. People who don't even exist.

PaulF said...

What about people whe see the adds and believe them? Something like 19percent of Americans will change their views after seeing a negative campaign add. What do you think of that?

People think that the repition of the negative ads change people to change their minds becasue it becomes hard to ignore. Shannon relates this to 451 by saying the government tells people books are bad so often that most people come to believe it. Other people say negative ads are very convincing becasue people don't vote for the best canidate but vote for the "less worse" candidate.

mmoritz said...

Do you think that is happening in the real world today. People are so "plugged in" to other things that having a meaningful relationship is virtually (no pun intended) impossible?

PaulF said...

The teacher asks why books got banned; because of the government or the people? Most people agree that it was the people becoming too lazy to read and also too lazy to stand up for free speech. Other people said it was the government who wanted to create an utopia by eliminating thought.

mmoritz said...

Think of the "relationships" you have with people on MySpace...do you personally know everyone?

PaulF said...

Do you think that is happening in the real world today. People are so "plugged in" to other things that having a meaningful relationship is virtually (no pun intended) impossible?

People think that it actually makes it easier becasue people can connect thourgh and with internet. They also say that the realationship won't be as meaningful. Mostly, depending on the amount, technology can hurt or help a relationship.

PaulF said...

Think of the "relationships" you have with people on MySpace...do you personally know everyone?

People were discussing this before you posted it. People say that they have friends on Myspace they never see but they did know they personally at some point.

Sophia asks what will happen to Montag and his books. ThomasM says that she might turn him in to get a reward for a fourth parlor wall. Other people say that she won't turn him in becasue she actually loves him even if it is superfacial.

mmoritz said...

Do you think that Mildred will ever completely come around? or do you think she is to far gone?

PaulF said...

Bronson asks if civilization will have to change or destroy itself in order to continue. Trey thinks that it will have to change becasue if it doesn't progress then it will fall apart. Mirah thinks that the war going on right now could spark a revolution in the society and books could be brought back and freedom of speech could be restored. Jacob says that 451 is like the cold war, because they are both battle of ideals.

PaulF said...

Do you think that Mildred will ever completely come around? or do you think she is to far gone?

there are scattered mutterings of "too far gone" and Kyle speaks up and says that Mildred is way too imersed in technology and couldn't come back to the real thinking world even if she wanted to.

mmoritz said...

Civilization always has to change and evolve.

PaulF said...

The teacher asks what the title of the second section could mean. Connor thinks that sand could be knowledge and the sieve is the people. The people can't hold onto the knowledge and it keeps slipping thourgh. When sand gets wet and gathers together then the sieve could hold the sand (the people could have knowledge)

PaulF said...

Jacob and Mirah say sand is the mass of knowledge that is meaningless and the sieve is being used to find gold nuggets (real knowledge) in the mass of meaningless knowledge.

We are done now.

mmoritz said...

Paul--you did an awesome job. Thank you so much. Have a great rest of the day.