Friday, October 24, 2008

4th hour Fahrenheit 451 Liveblog Discussion pgs 91-110

139 comments:

Kc P said...

hello

ruthp said...

I agree with Nicole, that it was alarming to finally read a book and think about something other than TV.

KyleC said...

She could have been brought to reality and was crying tears of joy. She didn't understand why she was crying so this could be why.

Kc P said...

ms. phelps was very distressed when Montag read the poem because she didn't understand it and that frightened her.

KyleC said...

Bronson brings up a good point. She hasn't had to think when she watches the parlor T.V.'s

bella said...

I think that Mrs. Phelps was very confused and freaked out that Guy had a book and he just came out of the blue with it! She was shocked.

CourtneyA said...

I think that Mrs. Phelps was freaked out, because she was crying. The book must have made her sad so she started crying a little bit. I think she got more upset when she didn't know why she was crying and cried even more. It scared her.

mmoritz said...

"...ignorant armies clash by night" Does that stike a cord with Mrs. Phelps?

ThomasL said...

She doesn't seem very emotional or loving whatsoever so maybe the poem was to much emotion to take in at once.

connors said...

I think it is interesting though how Mrs. Phelps was slightly interestede in poetry. It is a form of writing and almost all of those are banned, yet she still talks about it like she has read a little

ruthp said...

I think that it does make her think about her husband fighting in the war.

Alex K said...

indeed i thinh she reacted the way she did because it was such a shock to finally read a book. also, i think that the rush uf emotions took her over and she wasn't sure how to react.

ThomasL said...

Maybe the poem is like a wake-up call for Mrs. Phelps to see whats happening in her life.

bella said...

I think that it does make her think about all her abortions, her children, and her husband in the war. She realizes that she doesnt have any feeling towards her family she just didnt know it. She realizes it now in the peom and she finds it out and she is sad and angry that she didnt know it before!

KyleC said...

I was suprised that Mildred didn't start freaking out like she did when Montag first showed her the book. Why do you think she didn't react strongly to Montag bringing out the poem?

Kc P said...

I think Mrs. Phelps was sick of all the separatrion. She does really have anything substancial to hold onto constantly like family and feeling. just tv.

PaulF said...

Mrs. Phelps was very distressed because the poem was talking about topics that are censored out of this society. She is shocked becasue Mrs. Phelps is ignorant about all topcis that are deep and require actual thought. When Montag forces this deep poem upon her she is shocked and breaks down crying.

jordanp said...

I think that the words in the poem made her realize something. That the world hasn't got any emoition an it surprised but she didn't conciously know why

CourtneyA said...

The quote Mrs. M brought up probably did strike a cord. All the things we would consider today to be heartles and mean, she has put off in her mind. When she heard the poem everything seemed to surface at once.

mmoritz said...

Do you think she really even understands the poem. Could she be realizing what a complete idiot she is???

MargoC said...

That is a good point, T.V. parlosrs dont make her think because faber even said that the same stuff that is in books could be in school and the television but it is censored so they took it out.


I think that She was crying because the book made her think and made her sad and she isn't used to thinking about life and the book really made her think.

connors said...

I think this line in the book did more than just remind her of her husband and the war that he is fighting, but I think it showed her that books are not full of lies and made up things because there is a war going on in the poem and there is a war going on in the real world.

ThomasL said...

Mrs. Phelps mentions the way she treats her own children. She says she barely ever sees them and when she does see them it's for a short time and all they do is watch TV. Do you think this is how all relationships of parents and their children are??

KyleC said...

I agree with hunter when he said that they still think but they don't think out side the box or critically. Even today people still think when they watch T.V. but they don't have to think critically because they are given all the information they need by the program.

Thomasm said...

I think that Mildred doesnt realize how misunderstanding she has been and doesnt understand the poem at all and just shows herself as an idiot and the other women are shocked at montags uncaring accusations.

bella said...

I agree with Shannon when she says that they can think but they dont thinkg deeply. They notice, but they are like ok cool. It doesnt really matter to them.

Kc P said...

I agree with kyle, Mildred has been taking this whole book thing rather well besides her initail shock and actually encouraged montag to read a poem. this kinda suprised me.

MargoC said...

i think that she was alarmed by the poem, it really brought her up to society and realized that she actually does not know much and how much she has truley missed out on.

Thomasm said...

Mrs. Phelps talks about how she treats her children and she never sees them because they are so absorbed in TV which is just like Mildred.

PaulF said...

I thnk that Mrs. M's second comment is more accurate than the first. I dont think that Mrs. Phelps is deep or smart enough to realize what the poem is talking about. I think that Mrs. Phelps is upset about her lack of understanding not becasue they poem mentions war.

CourtneyA said...

To answer Mrs. M's question I do think a certain part to her does relate with the poem. I think this is the first time all these heartless feelings and things she has done surfaced all at once and she realized how bad thosoe things were that she did.

MargoC said...

jacobs question- i agree with jacob. i think that even though clarisse s family didn't have books they still thought up ideas and even though they did not write them down they were still thinking of these things that were forbidden

ruthp said...

She is realizing that she has had a bad life and that she really has no feeling. She figures this out when when she hears that line that reminds her of her husband.

Alex K said...

There is a paragraph on page 103 that i was wondering about. it is at the very top and it compares montag to faber and fire to water. a few lines down it says that out of two oppisite things comes a third. I was wondering how montag and faber were different and what was the outcome.

KyleC said...

Jacob also brings up a good point. Clarisse's family could have been talented and gifted. Just like we have today some people are smarter than others because knowledge just comes naturally. Do you think it is possible for people in the society of Farenheit 451 could have people that have knowledge come to them naturally?

ThomasL said...

About what Mariah said about the election of a president, do you think the government had something to do with the reasons some are voting for their canidates??

mmoritz said...

How many of you will go home and watch tv, get on your phone, or get on the computer before you have a meaningful conversation with one or both of your parents? How different is your relationship with your parents than Mrs. Phelps and her children?

connors said...

I think that the man running against the current president is planted by the goverment, but it capitalizes on how shallow the society is. They cannot find facts about each characters stand on important issues, because the information is fed to them, so all they can base their votes on is looks. They are not being ignorant, and just choosing to vote on lokks, that is just the only option they have

Kc P said...

I agree with what shannon that our first though is who looks like a good president instead of who would make a better leader.

ruthp said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
ellyf said...

I agree with Mariah, because it does seem that the more hansome people win with the election. The short fat guy could maybe just be some random person that is just running against somebody who does understand what is going on and is more handsome.

mmoritz said...

Do you trust people more when they are attractive?

CourtneyA said...

I sometimes will have a some what meaningful conversation with my mom after she picks me up before we go get my sister, because this is the only time I can really talk to her alone.

Kc P said...

I don't really teust people when they are attractive because peoplke like that use their looks to get you to trust them.

Thomasm said...

our relationship with our parents could be similar to Mrs. Phelps and her children but in my life i usually sit down with my dad/mom and talk about my day. Somedays it seems unlikely i will but it is routine and i think that for the election the government has placed the running president to oppose the current one. trust in my life is given by proof i will trust and then if they break it then it may cause me to not trust them again so this is similar to Faber as he trusts montag but doesnt know whether Montag will keep his word or not.

PaulF said...

Mrs. M: I make a point of talking to both of my parents every day after school. I care a lot about them and make sure I know what is going on in their lives. True, I may text on the busride home, but I make sure to always call them both when I get home if they don't call me. I think that Mrs. Phelps doesn't even love her children becasue she doesn't say anything to even suggest she loves them. She say they would be as likely to kick her as to kiss her.

ruthp said...

I do trust people more if they are attractive. That's unfortunate, but that is what our society teaches us.

jordanp said...

I think Mrs. Phelp must have understood it somewhat to find it hurtfull.
I don't think that the people really care how their chcikdren act they just don't want to be bothered by them. She even said the best thing about them is they look a bit like you completely focused on looks

ThomasL said...

I think that attractive people are easier to trust just because some people when you look at them you think right away, "wow i think i could trust that person."

ellyf said...

No, I dont trust people who are more attractive. Some people are very mean although they are pretty. Looks are not everything. Sure they are a little bit but personality is a lot of it.

Kc P said...

I think your first immpression of someone is all you have to go on and looks is a big part of that.

connors said...

Answering Mrs. Moritz's question i think our entire population trust people that are more attractive. Would you go up to a unattractive girl(or guy) and started telling them your name, what school you go to, what sports you play? They might take that information and start following you or use it in harmfull ways. Yet I would go up to a cute girl and tell her my name, and where I go to school so we could get to know each other.

KyleC said...

How do you think kids like us today are different than the kids in Farenheit 451? Do we do things differently or are we the same?

Thomasm said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Alex K said...

I think that to a certain degree the good looks of a person makes you trust them more. i think that someone that was sort of ignorant and didn't really see the person for what they are, but how they look.

CourtneyA said...

Sometimes I will base people off how attractive I think they are or if I think they look like what they say they are, like if they say they are a model and if they look like that I will probably believe them the first time I meet them.

ruthp said...

How or when do you think that their society started to loose that concept of love?

MargoC said...

I usually will get on the computer or the phone before i have an actual convo. with my parents. But just because i may do that first, i always have a convo with both of my parents before i go to bed. This differs from Mrs. Phelps and her kids because it is almost like she doesn't even love her kids and they feel the same about her and the chance of them having a daily convo with their mother is slim to none.

PaulF said...

I agree with ellyf because I to wouldn't trust someone just because they are atractive; Someone may be able to win my trust by being charasmatic even if they aren't truly good at heart. Words and personalites are much more powerful than looks.

KyleC said...

Mildred's friends don't care about their children and are self-centered because this is how they were raised as kids. Their parents most likely did this to them so they think this is the correct way to treat kids.

ellyf said...

Mildreds friends are just like the rest of society including Mildred. I agree with Mariah, where they women dont really have a life. They dont go to work and they dont do anything. They dont care about anything and dont think about anything. They just believe what they are told.

ThomasL said...

As a response to kyle's question, kids to today are very different but yet we aquire some of the same traits such as obsessing over the newest technology.

MargoC said...

Ruth, i think that is a really good question because they never really mention that. Do you think from just taking the books away from society that they lost their since of love for each other or just the whole thing of censorship?

connors said...

To Pauls comment about Mrs. Phelps not loving her kids, I think in her mind and everyone elses she does love them. they would think "why else would someone feed and cloth, and spend their own money upon someone if they dont love them?" Mrs. Phelps believes she is doing everything a good mother should.

Kc P said...

i agree with connor that is somethimes hard not to base someone on their appearance.

KyleC said...

How do you think our society today would change if books were taken away from us?

Thomasm said...

Montag poem he reads “Dover Beach,” deals with the theme of lost faith, and of the capacity for personal relationships to replace faith. It also deals with emptiness of life and its promises. When montag goes to the station and gives Beatty his book he compulsively washes his hands in an attempt to clear his guilt, which is clearly similar to Lady Macbeth

ThomasL said...

Yes I agree with elly and jacob about how women basically don't have a life because they think their life is the TV show in which they are reading a script.

jordanp said...

I don't think that trust is just based on attractiveness sometimes you just think a person looks trustworthy because of the way they look not necesarily attractivfe but not creepy. It's more based off stereotypes.

PaulF said...

KyleC said...
How do you think kids like us today are different than the kids in Farenheit 451? Do we do things differently or are we the same?

I would say that we are very similar to the kids in Farenheit 451. When we get together with our friends we will either play violent video games (like the show Mildred watched with her friends) or go and play sports like the kids do at school.

KyleC said...

Hunter brings up a good point. In todays society we play video games to go into a different world. We think it is fun to play all the shooting games where people kill other people because we think it is fun when in a real war it is scary and definately different

ellyf said...

I agree with Paul, becuase personally I dont really know what is going on in Iraq, I just hear rumors. I know a little, but not enough to judge it.

Alex K said...

I agree with hunter about the things that they do that are kind of outrageous are quite simmilar to things we do like video games

MargoC said...

in respone to Kyles question, i think that our socitey would be completly opposite if books were taken away. Our whole society is based on grades and education. You can not get a good job if they found out that you dropped out of high school or just try writing " HI MY NAME IS MARGO AND I HAVE NEVER READ A BOOK!" on a tracnscript for a job... the would not high you... they would think you have serious issues!

KyleC said...

Shannon brings up a good point because the wives of the soldiers in the book are lacking emotion. They don't feel love toward their husbands. It is somewhat like the relationship of Montag and Mildred

CourtneyA said...

To answer Ruth's question I think that as the technology became more advansed the amount of love decreased. With the technology you can "hang out" and "talk to" virtual freinds. They seem like they feel they don't need to talk to anyone real.

ThomasL said...

Also, it's sad to see that today when you enter a library you see shelves of books but at the same time you see a row of computers filled with children, teens, and adults. It shows that although books aren't being banned, many of them are being ignored.

ellyf said...

Mrs. Phelps has already had 3 other husbands so she has learned about how to block out all the bad and death that has happened to her life.

Kc P said...

I agree with what kelsey just said. Little kids in the book still want attrension from their parents but then when the parents doesn't get recognition they just end up like everyone else.

KyleC said...

Do you think that some relationships today are similar to those in Farenheit 451? Could this be a reason for such a high divorce rate?

Alex K said...

I agree that everybody starts out as an intelligent freethinking person, but i think that their surrondings cause then to loose this

Thomasm said...

Beatty uses literature to confuse Montag and this is his best weapon to calm Montag's doubt, his "loaded gun" Faber allows Montag to make his own decision after hearing both sides.

connors said...

I do not think removing books from the society is the sole cause of the meaning of love being lost. Books were taken away becuase our society was becoming lazy and trying to find the easiest way out. That can apply to more than just watching tv instead of reading. Relationships are taxing and take a lot of energy. Instead of being in real relationships and caring for someone else, they shortened the meaning of love to concerning material things. If the person you love got huirt, you would be hurt, but in their society you would not get hurt because that realationship would never exist.

jordanp said...

I think that in answer to Ruth's question that society changes like that when we lose connections. When people start spending less and less time with other people and talk about things that don't really matter anymore. Instead they start to do things that don't really use their emotions so they lose the ability

PaulF said...

I think that Montag will be a catalyst for the independence movement to take away censorship. He will be an active helper in trying to restore books and actaul thought into the community. Him and Fader will work together and will probably start and independence movement.

ellyf said...

At the beginning of this discussion, Nicole and Ruth said that "that it was alarming to finally read a book and think about something other than TV." I noticed how Mildred was always talking about her parlor family. The author never said that Montag watched the parlor. Maybe he wasnt obsessed with technology after all and he never really was!

ThomasL said...

As a response to Kyle's question, I think that our society wouldn't be very different because basically every novel is somewhere online. Anyone could go online and google a book and read the whole book, there would be no way to burn books.

MargoC said...

i sort of disagree with thomas's quesiton because there is books online and there is also many resources about literature to get online. that is one of the benefits of computors. For an example, Mrs. Mortiz book s thing on her website where you can go online and listin to a book being read by the author. there are many reasources online to read literature. Computors are just another way to access the books you want.

ruthp said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Alex K said...

answering Kyle, i think that if books were taken away in one day then poeple would be outraged. but if it was gradual then i think we might fall into the same hole.

Kc P said...

i think books are still very important today but they are just in another form, the internet.

ruthp said...

We would change by becoming more reliant on TV and the computer. We would forget what people took years to figure out and write them down. We would also lose religions, if we couldn't have the bible and other books.

KyleC said...

If there weren't any books in our society. We as students would have to believe everything that our teachers said. We wouldn't have any resources to cross reference our teachers.

PaulF said...

If books weren't aloud in our society it would be very different. We could be lied to becasue we wouldn't have any sources to confirm or reject what our teachers would tell us. It would be much either to censor everything becasue there would be no hard copy of books.

ellyf said...

To answer Kyle's question, I think that a small to medium percentage of realtionships today are based on looks and how rich somebody is. I mean some women marry old guys because of their money. That is wrong and that does tear apart soem relationships.

Alex K said...

yeah i definitly think that the high divorce rate comes from the lack of good relationships.

CourtneyA said...

I agree with the iner circle it would be very hard to teach class with no books. I really can't imagine school without books. If you were to create a school one of the first things you would think of to think are books

ThomasL said...

Thank you for bringing up that point Margo, you are right about many resources to listen or read books without acually reading the hardcover copy of a book.

jordanp said...

To answer Kyle's question I think that there are some relations like Montag's which may be based off of looks. People when they first met may have thought wow their prett y and ended up getting without realizing they were just attracted to each other's looks. But after spending so much time together they start to be tired of each other leading to a divorce.

CourtneyA said...

In the future I think you will be able to buy books online and download the book to your computer. Already on iTunes you can buy audiobooks to put on your iPod. Next will probably be downloading the book and your small ipod.

ThomasL said...

I agree with Mariah, soon are whole life will be online!! It's scary to think about, but yet it's true and the sad part is that we might not even know it's happening...

KyleC said...

Commenting on Bronson we now have online classes for college. Do you think this takes away from our learning like technology does in Farenheit 451?

MargoC said...

i agree with the inner circle and courtney. If we didn't have books in school it would be hard to even consider it school. There would be no reasource to look from or even think for ourselves. We would have to just always believe the teacher.. which we still do but we could not actually see for ourselves.

ellyf said...

I agree with Mariah, becuase everybody is always online, or on their phone right when they get home. Even when doing homework, many people having their iPods playing. Only during sports do people not have technology going.

Kc P said...

To answer Kyle's question, there are relationships like Montag's where there is a sort of mutual agreement that they are married and that does't mean anything at all.

PaulF said...

I think that online classes are just like what is happening in 451 because it is equivalent to having a tecaher come on a movie and talk to us. I think that in order to learn a person needs to be surrounded by thier peers and be able to interact with thier teachers.

MargoC said...

OHHMMMYYYYYYY GOODNNESSS~!!! hunter is sooo right! it does totally go back to the guys videoooo!!!

ThomasL said...

As a response to elly's comment, sports are the only thing without the major use of technology at the moment. But how long will it be until even sports are on the computer...????

connors said...

I dont think the technology we use today in the class room takes away from learning for two reasons. One is that if technology was harmfull to the classroom enviorment, than the teachers today would not use it. Also the extint of technology in the classroom is not threatening the demise of books, just complimenting them and increasing our study of them.

CourtneyA said...

To comment what Elly said about technology not being used on the field, do you think players will use technology while they are playing? Do you think that they could send out certain signals about what the next play should be? Could they talk to their coach while they are on the field?

ruthp said...

If you think about it, we aren't gaining more knjowledge. During the 1900s we gained alot of knowledge and with it inventions. During the 21st century we haven't really gained more knowledge, only inventions that only make our lives easier. The internet for example, makes our lives easier, instead of going to the library and finding the information in a book.

ThomasL said...

Hunter and Margo are so right!! This definitely brings backs memories of Mr. Fish's video because it relates to this book so much!!

jordanp said...

On what Paul said about online classes. In some of those you still have discusions with the other people taking the class sometimes. Right now are we being like F451 sort of because were comunicating online instead of discussing outloud.

KyleC said...

Why do you think people today are trying to make a quick fix type of relationship instead of thinking about the long term?

Kc P said...

Hunter, Margo, and Thomas are soooooo right.

PaulF said...

I think ThomasL makes a good point when he says that sports are the only things that aren't computerized and even these are in video games. How long will it be until we can do everything in our day on the computer???

ruthp said...

I think alot of the time people could try to work it out, but there are many times when it isn't possible to get around it. This could be an affair or a personal problem.

Thomasm said...

I think that today people dont actually know what love is and jump into marriage too early. Also the ideal family is married parents and wealthy enough which is less common than an unideal family and that divorce is considered adultery and people have forgotten that.

ellyf said...

To answer Courtney's in tennis people are not allowed to coach using signals or anything. Otherwise, you will get defaulted for being accused of cheating. In football, after almost every play Jay Cutler for ex. will run over to the coach to get the next play. He will tell his team members on the field the play.

KyleC said...

Do people divorce in Farenheit 451?

ThomasL said...

I agree with Shannon about getting divorced, nowadays so many couples are divorced and I think the divorce rate will get higher since divorce is becoming so common.

Thomasm said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
CourtneyA said...

Elly - I meant do you think the rules can be changed and you can signal your team to do this or talk to thier coach with technolgy?

ruthp said...

How high do you think the divorce rate is in their society?

ellyf said...

About the technology on Courtney's question, I think that yes they could be changed and yes there could be use of technology in the sports world. It wont happen soon, but yes it could happen.

MargoC said...

i sure hope shannon is wrong because i don't wanna get divorcedd! But at the moment it looks like she is right. couples just need to understand when u marry some1, ur makin a promise to god and eachother but then theres that point, what if ur just not ment to be together.. u got married before u found ur soul matee

Alex K said...

I think that today people don;t take enough time to find the right person for themselves. they might be happy when they were dating, but once married they can't handal eachother.

connors said...

I think people not working hard enough is not the soul cause of people getting divorced. Over tim people change and began to like and dislike things. Are you the same person you were five years ago? As people change over time the partners should try and figure out those changes in their partner so they can have a good marriage. Although people change, the marriage should still be intact

jordanp said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
CourtneyA said...

Elly - why don't you think this change will happen soon? WHEN do you think it will happen?

KyleC said...

Responding to Mrs. Moritz comment. Do you think that us going through divorce will make us prevent this when it is our turn to marry?

jordanp said...

I think people want quick fixes because that's what life is like, the computer you type words and hit enter, on Tv you can see some story in an hour, you can get fast food, etc. so in a relationship you want thingts to be fixed quickly like that to.

Kc P said...

I agree with Mrs. Moritz that there is a lot more forgivness for devorcing because more people have done it and can connect to every one else that way.

ThomasL said...

Kyle- Yes people do get divorced in Farenheit 451. Mrs. Phelps has been married three times and I am sure she will get divorced again...and again... and again.

KyleC said...

I recently heard a joke that goes, "marriage is grand, but divorce costs 100 grand". Do you think this is true?

MargoC said...

BYe BYe BLOGGER.

ellyf said...

I dont think that their divorce rate is very high because to me, the husbands are being killed in the war that is going on.


To answer Courtney's question again, it wont happen soon, because some games want to stay teaditional and clean. In most all sports except tennis and golf, they DO use tech.

KyleC said...

What is the main reason of divorce? Could it be that the people involved in the marriage just don't care about their spouse?

ThomasL said...

Divorce affects the whole family especially the children. Parents will tell their children "We still love you." which is good for children to know. But it still deeply saddens children.